DJs and captive audiences ...
Saturday I went to the Tango Potpourri milonga. I had a good time and I might go over the details in another post, but right now I want to talk about the music and the DJing. The DJ was Jackie Wong, from Tango Pulse.
Until about midnight the music was fine. There were some uninspired tandas but overall it was OK. After midnight, it's when the alternative frenzy started. If you've read my blog before you know alternative is not my thing, I find the constant beat and the lack of depth in the music boring. But once in a while, a tanda with carefully picked songs can be quite fun. But not three or four tandas in a row and certainly not two hours of alternative songs, all sounding the same.
By the end of the milonga I was quite annoyed, and I'll tell you why. Murat & Michelle were in attendance as they were one of the visiting teaching guests, and around 1AM when a traditional waltz tanda was played, I asked Michelle to dance. This was the first time I had a chance to dance with her and I was really curious if we can connect, she seems quite athletic on the dance floor and I prefer the "calmer" dancers. But once again, the looks are deceiving, she does have that clam quality to her dance, she is definitely an amazing dancer (see my post about the "Perfect Follow") and despite the overcrowded floor I had a fantastic time. At the end of the tanda I was expecting her to say thank you and move on to the better leads in the room. But for reasons unknown, she kept talking through the cortina waiting for the next tanda. Score! When the first song of the next tanda started we sighed and rolled our eyes at the same time. Yet another slow alternative, the absolute same style that was played most of the last hour. Michelle says, "well, let's try it, maybe it gets better". So we start dancing on the painfully slow, constant beat music and despite having such a fantastic dancer in my arms I find myself wishing the song is over. When it was over we looked at each other, shook our heads and without a word we stopped dancing. That music was incredibly boring. She made a comment to that effect, and then we chatted about some other stuff and I was once again expecting her to move on, go back and talk to the people she was talking to when I asked her to dance, or whatever. But no, we kept talking through the rest of the tanda, and through the cortina and the next tanda starts and ... YET again another slow alternative tanda. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, my eyes rolled so violently I thought I was going to hurt myself. Michelle (shoot ooops, no, she did not shoot anything, I need to proof read better ...) shook her head disappointed and in mutual agreement we decided to give up and go talk to some people.
While my dancing got a lot better in the last few months, it's not often when a "Perfect follow" of Michelle's caliber go out of her way to dance with me, so when the music repeatedly screws up my opportunity to dance with such a fantastic dancer, I get really ticked off. But wait, I'm not done yet. Before I move on however, I want to recommend Murat & Michelle as instructors. I took their Sunday class and I loved it. I generally dislike group classes for a number of reasons, but this was great. Murat explained and demonstrated in detail the mechanics of the move, did not get stuck into teaching some pattern, the class was geared towards getting the "feel" of the movement being taught (I used the word "movement" on purpose, as it was not a figure that was being taught, it was a way of moving that one can use to make their on figure and patterns). I will take a private with them as soon as I can, they're awesome.
Marika & Bulent were in attendance as well, and if you read my early posts about my Montreal visits, you'd know she is, like my girlfriend likes to tease me, my "tango crush". She wasn't feeling good that evening, she had a nasty cough, so I wasn't expecting the chance to dance with her, but we were talking and a milonga tanda was just ending so I asked if she feels well enough to dance a bit. She enthusiastically agreed (she is so sweet), and we went on the dance floor waiting for the cortina to end. So what music started? Can you guess? Yeah, yet another slow alternative, the same style as before. Marika is a nuevo dancer and she rolled her eyes, that should tell you something. I had a great time, she is such an amazing dancer, but I had a great dance despite of the music, not because of the it.
So, if any DJ reads this, please, for the love of God, don't play the same style of music over and over again. The fact that people are still dancing is not necessarily a sign they like the music. Especially at one time events, there are people in attendance that you normally don't have a chance to dance with, so chances are, most people are going to dance anyway, but don't let that fool you. You have a captive audience, we don't have much of a choice, but that's not a license to torture us. ASK people, and ask the right way. Don't ask, "do you like the music?" most people are too polite to say "no". Ask "Would you like to hear more alternative, or would you like to hear some classic tango?" A milonga is not the place to "try new stuff", and if you HAVE TO try something, one "trial" tanda per evening is enough. I paid $20 to come to this milonga to have fun, not to be a guinea pig.
Additional note: while I had a big issue with the music selection in the second half of the milonga, the sound system was top notch. Unlike many other events, I could hear the music everywhere on the dance floor and it was not uncomfortably loud next to the speakers either. Good job there.
13 comments:
I really hope that Michelle did not "shoot" her head in disappointment... considering how fantastic she was the next day in class! (Had to tease you as that was a slip I could not help bu t laugh at.... ;) )
But I completely agree about the music. I was dancing with one of my favorite leads near the end of the evening, through the never ending slow alternative tandas. We kept dancing in the hopes that it would get better and change dynamic, but it did not. And finally he apologized and said he could not take it anymore, and promised me a good tanda another time. Not that it was not fun to dance with him, it always is, but I understood his frustration. Alternative can be fun, but you are right in that ANY time that the DJ plays the same style or type of music for 3, 4 or 5 tandas in a row, it can drive me bananas. No one would play 4 milonga tandas in a row! They would be taken out back and beaten with stilettos! So playing too many alternative tandas in a row at an non-alternative milonga is the same thing.
Ok, soap box speech done. And I know that no one is ever 100% happy with the music, being a DJ is one of the hardest gigs there is as you will always have people bitching about something. But sometimes when many people voice the same thought, it should be passed on to the organizer/DJ/whomever so that we have a fighting chance at change. So I think that is what I will do. :-)
I agree about the alternative music - I don't mind a random alternative song once in a while but when it's one after the other - then it gets really annoying. Of course at Nuevo Milongas, it's quite common (I am speaking of marika and bulent's milongas - yes, they do play quite a bit of alternative music although they do break it up with classical music too).
Marika is a wonderful dancer and she is as graceful in person as she is in her dancing.
Sorin,
You are right on Michelle and Murat--they are amazing teachers!! On Michelle: while I'm a Follow and I have never danced with her :) I must say that she was probably one of the people I had in the back of my mind when I wrote about the Perfect Follow and about the Nice Hot Shot :} --she really is nice and sweet, and willing and able to appreciate a good leader --even if he is someone she doesn't know anything about. I'm glad you confirmed my intuition!
Tanguera
Sorin,
Please don’t be offended by any of my comments but I happened to come across your blog and was quite shocked by the entries…
I currently dance in Boston, and really think the lack of alternative music puts Boston way behind the times. Although I love traditional tango music, I am able to relate to alternative beats, which really helps me express myself in the dance. One of the most amazing characteristics of tango is the versatility, the dynamics that make it possible to adapt to almost any type of music. I understand the history of tango and the progression of traditional music, but to write off alternative music all-together, is a great disadvantage to Nuevo tango dancers. Although the underlying base of some alternative music is pretty basic, the overtones and drawn out melodies have the ability to spur and encourage a very sensual and experimental style. When dancing in Boston, I find myself craving alternative beats and wish Boston in general would be more open to change within the dance. If one thing about tango stands out to me, it is the way it can be changed and altered to fit every dancer, every style and almost every beat. To remove this quality, is to disregard the very thing tango represents to so many of us.
As for Jackie, she is a really good friend of mine and I know for a fact that she has an immense love and respect for traditional tango music. In my experience, she has always had a very good sense of whether or not people are enjoying the music. Of course you can't please everyone. Jackie has never advertised that she plays only traditional music, but she does always make a point to mix the classics of the past with the current sounds. She also usually gets more alternative toward the end of the night, to accommodate both the younger and older crowds present. I am sure if you asked her for some more traditional music, she would have played it for you because it is so important to her that everyone enjoy tango and all that goes with it.
But, to make a long story short, I think Jackie Wong is a fabulous DJ and really wish Boston would be a little more open-minded to the changes that are happening all around us. There is so much value in the progression!
See you on the dance floor.
~C
Dear C,
Why would I be offended, you expressed your opinions and desires. I find people are too easily offended these days and because of that, communications are often hindered by the fear of offending people.
I've written at length on why I don't like to dance tango on most non-tango music so I'm not going to repeat all of that. The short story is, for me, dancing on most of the alternative music it's boring. Where tango is a polyphonic music, most of what's called alternative is not. While it can be fun to play with this music for a tanda or even two, having to hear a never ending sequence of alternative tandas, all of them sounding the same, drove me (and many others) bonkers.
I've met Jackie, and she is a very warm and friendly person, I can see why people love her. But I do not like her choices in the music she plays at milongas. I thought it was important for her and other DJs to hear what people are saying, so I made my thoughts public and I encouraged people to voice their opinion (through comments, like yours) rather then just complain privately among each other.
I will publish a poll soon on preferences on music, it would be interesting to see the demographics of people who enjoy one type of music or another.
hi sorin,
i hope the next time you feel the music is not to your taste, that you would feel comfortable to mention it to the DJ. being the nice person i am :-) i am certainly open to suggestions. i swear i don't bite.
from 9 until past midnight when the performances started, i played 15 tandas of traditional and 3 tandas (2 of them with only 2 songs) of alternative. After the performances (around 12:40pm) i played 4 tandas of traditional music. - vals with canaro/guillermo, tango with fresedo/ray to name two. and yes, the last two tandas were slow alternative and i ended with la cumparsita (a request happily fulfilled). i tend to slow things down the last hour.
i welcome constructive criticism and your comment about too much slow alternative during the last hour is seriously noted. and please debbi... keep your stillettos on. :-)
jackie
No worries! I would only worry about the DJ who would played an hour's worth of milonga with stilettos... But mine will always stay firmly on my feet! :-)
Jackie,
>i hope the next time [...] you would feel comfortable to mention it to the DJ
Point well taken, I can't expect the DJ to read my/our mind(/s).
Jackie, I know you can't please everybody, so keep in mind, these are personal opinions. It seems there are many people out there who appreciate alternative music more then I do.
To find out, I'm currently designing a "tango music poll", and once it's ready I'll put it up and invite the tango dancers from everywhere to complete it. It asks for demographics as well, so we'll be able to see peoples preferences by age/city/experience/role, etc.
Jackie,
Yeah, do keep in mind, these are personal opinions. A lot of us like your DJing. In fact, after the Milonga as I went home that night, I mentioned to some people that the night had caused me to "fall in love with Tango all over again".
('~C' don't give up hope on us Bostonites. Alternative music is picking up here - and I would actually credit the steadily increasing appearance of Jackie here as our acknowledgement of that. And, I just heard about the: the alternative milonga).
Vineet
And Sorin, some constructive feedback... Please don't use phrases like 'captive audience' - sensationalist titles work when you are referring to smaller groups of people, but in this case you are offending those of us that chose to dance during those songs. I understand that you might not have had your perfect dances, but stop being childish - you know that DJs pay attention to the dance floor, and there has to be a reason that the organizers invited her again and again for multiple such special events. If you feel so strongly, please do talk to the organizers directly - most of them have been great in receiving advice and help.
We have worked very hard over the last few years to bring the control of the community to the dancers. Please do work with us and help us build the community that you would like to see.
-Vineet
Wow. We are pleased to read all these feedbacks being shared here.
It was a great weekend of dancing and sharing good moments with friends, teachers, and organizers. Also it was a very beautiful milonga space and the sound system was great on Sat. night. We enjoyed watching the performances, interacting, dancing with local dancers and old friends as much as we could. Interesting to see that both nights, performers generally preferred choosing traditional tangos even though most of them can often be seen performing to non-traditional music.
Joining the blog concerning the Saturday Night Milonga's music. We had hard times dancing to the non-traditional music and especially after the performances we either stood for a long time (while impatient to dance), or danced with both strangers and old friends with feelings like we forgot how to dance. We usually like alternative music, but that night my legs could do nothing else but to plod along to the long, slow, pop songs. Which is why the next day at the end of a class I approached a young girl from the night before and said, "I apologize for my very boring dancing last night, I am usually more interesting than the guy who keeps repeating ocho cortado 80 times." She was sweet, I was honestly apologetic. As Sorin mentioned, the music was consistently uninspiring and repetitive. Conversation was a better alternative.
In festivals that have three days of dancing in a weekend, particularly the Saturday night milonga must be the climax. Most of the people will attend this night and they should be left satisfied at the end especially after they paid more than the normal night of dancing. Saturday night milongas are not the proper time or place to be experimental. Organizers, performers, and DJ's should all be at the top of their game.
During the Saturday night milonga of the Potpourri weekend and after the festival, we could not ignore hearing so many negative comments about the music. As Sorin says, in usual people do not like to reveal their true opinions about the music. Perhaps people wanna be or look friendly and nice when they dance with strangers, even though they may be suffering in the meantime. It is great that people can at least bring it up in these forums.
My partner approached one of the local teachers in boston with the intention of sitting and gossiping. He misunderstood and right away was apologetic about not being able to dance ...eyes rolling.. "the music...". Very honestly, we also had significant frustrations with ourselves because of the music that night. We are so used to having great moments of dancing on Saturday night milongas of every festival we attend. Obviously not only about the numbers of traditional versus alternative, also about the composition of the sections and particularly the quality of non-tango pop selections. I am glad to hear La Cumparsita by D'arienzo for the last song, but it was too late, I found myself doing 30 more cortados.
Once more, these are our personal opinions. We hope that the criticisms are clear and that no one reads more into the comments than we mean. We love Jackie as a person and she is well loved in the community. But again, we will chose not to bother her with our opinions of the music while she is at work in the milonga. We are looking forward to write more positively about her music in the future. She is on her way to be one of the best.
Thank you Sorin and Debbie for opening up the discussion.
Fellow Tangueros
Wow, music is quite the hot bed of discussion! Which I think is a good thing. I am sorry to read that the phrase captive audience was offensive, but I want to mention that it is not necessarily a bad phrase to use. Any audience that paid money for an event (be it tango, theatre, music, etc.) and have no control over the content of their environment is a captive audience. This can be, and often is, a very good thing. It also can turn sour if the entertainment is not to their liking. Granted, we always have the option of leaving, but honestly, I don't think that is really a true option in tango because we are all so addicted and want to dance! :-)
I think that healthy discussion about something as integral as music is a very good thing and can only help the community. Everyone has (or should have anyway) an opinion and preference for music, which is why it is always so fun to dance with different people. If we all liked the same thing, it would be boring.
Hiya Sorin and all,
I wasn't there and I know Jackie but I haven't heard her often enough to comment. But I am a DJ, and I agree it can be hard to please every last person in the room (once I had a dancer complain loudly that I was playing all this Spanish singing) (??!). However it is undeniably harder if the displeased parties are dancing/sitting there suffering in silence and rolling their eyes at each other instead of at the DJ!! If you don't want to complain loudly, just make a positive suggestion like: Hey I would very much love to dance to some valses by [insert some orchestras here], can you do that for me please? Most DJs love direct feedback, and if you don't get what you ask, you can still create a lovely stink. If you do get your valses, your evening will improve, which is even better. Or, alternatively, pick your milongas according to who your favorite DJs are, or become a DJ yourself (these are my solutions to bad music). See you soon!! Tine NYC
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