tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post8820740184822204485..comments2008-09-15T13:43:57.720-07:00Sorinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02550848418513002853noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-7190922683577079082008-09-15T11:46:00.000-07:002008-09-15T11:46:00.000-07:00Hi, Sorin! I have caught up on your blog and this post really hit me as I am a just-starting-out beginner and I was wondering the same thing.<BR/><BR/>Tango class #3 and we are learning the cross. Dancing with the instructor and other intermediate leaders sprinkled throughout the class, I can feel how its supposed to work (also have had lots of other dance in my background) then I get rotated to this intermediate leader who actually twists me so awkwardly that it kind of hurts and the cross is not smooth. I can feel it right away. He then proceeds to instruct me that I'm doing it wrong (!)and keeps twisting me in opposite directions. I *know* its him because it certainly didn't feel like that with others and I managed to execute the cross reasonably well with them. But I bite my tongue and don't say anything because I'm a rank beginner and don't want to create a problem. Now I know this guy is an intermediate because he's in that class (right after mine).<BR/><BR/>So the question is, during class I will endure it, but when I go to a practica and this guy approaches, if I turn him down and (a big and) he gets the hint will (a) word get around that I am picky and (b) if and when he finally learns how to lead a cross correctly then I will have shot myself in the foot way back when. (When I danced salsa there was a bad lead who I wouldn't dance with then he took private lessons and got so good I was itching for him to ask me to dance!!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-56608238471049936162008-07-28T17:23:00.000-07:002008-07-28T17:23:00.000-07:00Hi Sorin, great post! It will be always really difficult for a beginner to discern between what's good and bad (ignorance is bliss, sometimes!) but with this post it makes things a bit clearer!<BR/>Thank you very much by this post!koolrickyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12322560350770527634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-36218942664584817332008-07-21T13:31:00.000-07:002008-07-21T13:31:00.000-07:00Dear Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Maybe I should've been more specific, when I was talking about clowns, I was referring to the leaders who despite years of dancing are still clueless. I will consider writing a post with my advice for beginner leads.Sorinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02550848418513002853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-4068029164946750092008-07-21T11:44:00.000-07:002008-07-21T11:44:00.000-07:00I agree with your guidance regarding qualities to look for in a good leader.<BR/><BR/> It would be helpful, however, if you gave some insight that outlined a path to become a good leader. Most of what is offered by others is just, "practice, go to milongas, practice, practice, take a workshop, etc..." Inevitably this leads to every milonga having a few clowns as described trying to incrementally improve by torturing one follower after another.<BR/><BR/> What was your experience like in learning to lead? What do you wish someone had told you? What is the most painless path to becoming a good leader? As a beginning leader, I would find these topics to be very interesting reading.<BR/><BR/> As a beginning (but fast-learning) and dedicated-to-improving leader, I am often perplexed by follower's behavior. I agree it's not the follower's job or responsibility to offer suggestions or correct the leader. However, if they are tortured by a bad lead, they are not doing the other followers any favors (not to mention the leader) if they don't say anything. I think most learning leaders appreciate thoughtful feedback. A sincere, "I find your embrace a little uncomfortable at times especially when..." is much preferred over "excuse me, I'm thirsty" in the middle of a tanda. We're all adults and we're all there to enjoy ourselves.<BR/> And please people. It IS just a dance. Is your "reputation" or your dance really going to be "ruined" by dancing with someone less experienced every once in a while? If so, is either very solid to begin with? Please remember that the beginner leader of today is the advanced leader of tomorrow...he will remember how you treated him when he was learning!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-48185216183372041632008-07-07T19:09:00.000-07:002008-07-07T19:09:00.000-07:00Great subject Sorin. I used to think certain people were good dancers, I guess just because they were always out dancing, and it took some bad bad tandas for me to get it that: 1) they were bad, 2)they made me look bad and therefore were ruining my reputation, 3) over time they weren't improving and it is not my problem or my job to give them "feedback". My dance life has become so much more joyful and I learn so much more now that I only dance with people who have those traits you tell us to look for.<BR/>I don't mind putting in a dance or two with a beginner now, but I am not teaching them and I won't keep dancing with them if they stagnate in the beginner pool forever.<BR/>So Yes, it matters! A lot. If we don't turn them down, they have no reason to improve. I say all this is a diva-less voice. Of course.Elizabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13814965814308408209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-76426876329668415802008-07-04T19:03:00.000-07:002008-07-04T19:03:00.000-07:00I think it is great that you have given this feedback. There have been many times in which I see beginners dancing with awful awful leaders that will only ruin their dance if they stay there for too long. Most of the times, I do hope that the best of them will eventually recognize who they should run away from... and will. Also, there have been a few times in which I found a way to get to meet these new Tangueras and managed to slip in a suggestion or two on who should be a good leader to try and who should be totally avoided...La Tanguerahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06798430025291155660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36650694.post-34953000997960748322008-06-30T09:56:00.000-07:002008-06-30T09:56:00.000-07:00Very interesting post Sorin. Thanks!<BR/><BR/>I wonder what, if any, advice you might give to a beginning Leader re: with whom she/he should dance? <BR/><BR/>While many of the principles you outlined apply for a new leader, it is worth considering that sometimes good followers can compensate / adjust / help-out on movements that aren't fully led. Then when one dances with a follower who is less experienced the movement might not be executed as smoothly. <BR/><BR/>Maybe the advice for a beginning leader is to try to dance with followers (of all levels) who follow only what's led and don't help-out one bit, even if they know what you are trying to lead. From my short experience as a tango leader / follower its tempting to want to help out the leader.<BR/><BR/>Just my thoughts...curious what others think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com